UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON AT TACOMA

CHERYL LINDSEY SEELHOFF, a married woman, Plaintiff, Tacoma, Washington vs. PAT and SUE WELCH, husband and wife, Defendants.

Docket No. C97-5383FDB Tacoma, Washington September 1, 1998 Trial Volume 2

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE HONORABLE FRANKLIN D. BURGESS UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a Jury.

APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff:	BARBARA J. DUFFY GWENDOLYN PAYTON KLEIN Lane Powell Spears Lubersky 1420 Fifth Avenue, Suite 4100 Seattle, Washington 98101-2338
For the Defendants:	RUDY R. LACHENMEIER LORI DeDOBBELAERE Lachenmeier, Enloe & Rall 9600 S.W. Capitol Highway Portland, Oregon 97219
Court Reporter:	Teri Hendrix Union Station Courthouse, Room 3100 1717 Pacific Avenue Tacoma, Washington 98402 (253) 593-6545

Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript produced by Reporter on computer.

Excerpt from transcripts Volume 2 September 1, 1998 Pages 210-445


How to use these documents.

A complete copy of the transcript are availble on an independent web site.
http://members.aol.com/Hsingcase/index.html
(Link provide by permission)

Documents can be ordered by writing to:

US District Court
Western District of Washington
P.O. Box 1935
Tacoma, Washington 98401

399

1  A.  Repented?
2  Q.  Yes.
3  A.  It means to change, to stop your sin, to turn around, to
4  stop what you are doing, to stop your sin.
5  She told me -- I said Cheryl, you can go and speak to CHEO
6  if you have repented. I didn't think it was right that she
7  would go speak to those people if she was seeing another man.
8  So I asked her, have you repented, Cheryl? she said yes. I
9  said it's okay if you go speak, and she went on and she spoke.
10  I was in my office, and she was in CHEO speaking. The next
11  day I get a call from CHEO, from Gregg Harris. And Gregg Harris
12  said that he had proof that Cheryl had Rick at the conference
13  with her after she had told me she had repented. She still took
14  Rick with her and Rick was in the same room with her.
15  So she lied to me. She said she had repented and she
16  hadn't.
17  And that's when I decided to construct that letter. And
18  that's when, we called her, before we even read the letter to my
19  church.
20  I called her and told her our intentions, what we were going
21  to do.
22  And basically when she got back from CHEO, I asked her, I
23  says how did your meeting go? She said something, whatever. 1
24  says, was Rick with you? And she says no. I says Cheryl, I
25  have proof that Rick was with you. And she said well, who told

400

1  you? I said that's not your concern who told me.
2  She said no, who told you? So she kept pestering and
3  pestering me. So I finally told her it was Gregg Harris that
4  told me.
5  Gregg Harris told me and I also got a call from Michael
6  Boutot from Ohio also. Both of them called me and told me that
7  they had proof that Rick was in the same room with Cheryl. And
8  that's when I knew that she had lied to me by saying she had
9  repented.
10  And that's when I decided to go on and break the
11  confidentiality, because any time you use church discipline the
12  confidentiality is always broken, because you have to tell, you
13  have to warn the person first to stop.
14  If they don't listen, the Bible says you take it to another
15  person if they don't listen, then you tell it before the church.
16  And that's what I did. I did it according to Matthew 18 in
17  the Bible. That's what I did.
18  Q.  Do you know if Cheryl was familiar with the church
19  discipline?
20  A.  Pardon?
21  Q.  Do you know whether Cheryl was knowledgeable about church
22  discipline?
23  A.  Yes, she was knowledgeable about it.
24      MS. KLEIN: Objection, speculation.
25      THE COURT: If you know and how you know she knows.

401

1  Is that your question, counsel, how does he know what she
2  knows?
3      MR. LACHENMEIER: I just asked him if he knew whether
4  she knew, and he answered yes, I believe.
5  A.  Yes, she knew.
6      THE COURT: Counsel, you can test him how he knows what
7  he knows.
8      MR. LACHENMEIER: I couldn't hear that, I'm sorry.
9      THE COURT: I said counsel will get a chance to
10  cross-examine this witness to see how he knows what he says he
11  knows.
12  BY MR. ILACHENMEIER:
13  Q.  At one point you were testifying a few minutes ago, I can't
14  remember whether it was Gregg Harris or Michael Boutot that was
15  angry with you. Which one was it, and why were they angry?
16  A.  It was deeper than that. He was irate. Michael Boutot was
17  the one who called me. Basically he said, if you are a
18  pastor -- you call yourself a pastor and you're going to let one
19  of your people come out here and speak knowing that she was
20  involved in another man. Why didn't you call us and warn us?
21  Had we known she was involved with another man, we never would
22  have let her come out here and speak in the first place.
23  So he told me I was wrong for letting her come and speak.
24  I told Michael Boutot, I told him she said she had repented,
25  that's why I let her go. She had my blessing. She told me she