UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
AT TACOMA
CHERYL LINDSEY SEELHOFF,
a married woman,
Plaintiff, Tacoma, Washington
vs.
PAT and SUE WELCH,
husband and wife,
Defendants.
Docket No. C97-5383FDB
Tacoma, Washington
September 2, 1998
Trial
Volume 3
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE THE HONORABLE FRANKLIN D. BURGESS
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a Jury.
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff:
BARBARA J. DUFFY
GWENDOLYN PAYTON KLEIN
Lane Powell Spears Lubersky
1420 Fifth Avenue, Suite 4100
Seattle, Washington 98101-2338
For the Defendants:
RUDY R. LACHENMEIER
LORI DeDOBBELAERE
Lachenmeier, Enloe & Rall
9600 S.W. Capitol Highway
Portland, Oregon 97219
Court Reporter: Teri Hendrix
Union Station Courthouse, Room 3100
1717 Pacific Avenue
Tacoma, Washington 98402
(253) 593-6545
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
produced by Reporter on computer.
Excerpt from transcripts Volume 3 September 2, 1998 Pages 446-683
How to use these documents.
A complete copy of the transcript are availble on an independent web site.
http://members.aol.com/Hsingcase/index.html
(Link provide by permission)
Documents can be ordered by writing to:
US District Court
Western District of Washington
P.O. Box 1935
Tacoma, Washington 98401
566
1 A. It's more likely.
2 Q. Okay. Exhibit 26, as we mentioned, contains the letter of
3 June 30, 1994.
4 Now, you discussed this letter with the Williamses while it
5 was being formulated; correct?-
6 A. The cover letter, not necessarily their letter of discipline
7 to the church.
8 Q. However, when you talked to the Williameses you had already
9 talked to Michael Farris, an attorney; is that right?
10 A. I don't remember the sequence. I may have talked to the
11 Williamses before Michael Farris, if that's significant.
12 Q. And you recommended to the Williamses -- offered to the
13 Williamses Michael Farris' number yourself; correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Isn't it true, Mrs. Welch, that you actually suggested to
16 the Williamses or passed on suggestions that they use language
17 like "we believe" and "we feel" in the letter of June 30?
18 A. Their letter?
19 Q. Their letter.
20 A. I don't remember giving any -- that's completely out of my
21 realm to give them any suggestions for that letter.
22 Q. But you passed on some suggestions from Michael Farris; is
23 that right?
24 A. I don't remember. They talked to him directly.
25 MS. DUFFY: I would like to move to publish volume 1 of
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1 Mrs. Welch's deposition.
2 BY MS. DUFFY:
3 Q. I want to call your attention to page 225 of your
4 deposition, specifically. line 16. You recall when that
5 deposition was given, it was given in my office, is that right,
6 on February 9, 1998? Your deposition that you have in front of
7 you there? '
8 A. Yes, this is my deposition.
9 Q. At the time, you were sworn under oath; is that right?
10 A. Of course.
11 Q. Take a look at line 16. 1 asked you, "And were you
12 suggesting in that conversation to the Williamses that they use
13 terms like "we believe" and "we feel" or -- strike that.
14 "Were you suggesting language that the Williamses might use
15 in the letter that they were going to read to the congregation?"
16 Are you read your answer?
17 A. "I don't remember suggesting anything. I might have passed
18 on something from Michael Farris, but I wouldn't be having any
19 reason to make those kind of suggestions."
20 Q. Take a look at Exhibit 60 there in front of you. That's the
21 document we were referring to in your deposition.
22 Are you with me? I want you to look at the document with
23 Bates Stamp 72 on it. It says Welch-72 on the bottom of Exhibit
24 No. 60.
25 A. Yes.
568
1 Q. By the way, that document is in your handwriting; correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. That was a note of a conversation you had with Joe and Irene
4 Williams; correct?
5 A. How do you determine that?
6 Q. You testified that it was in reference to a conversation
7 that you had with Joe and Irene Williams.
8 MR. LACHENMEIER: Objection. Could you point the
9 testimony out to her?
10 BY MS. DUFFY:
11 Q. Let me ask you this: Isn't it true that in Exhibit 60,
12 which is in your handwriting at Welch Document 72 -- in fact,
13 why don't you read that letter, read that document to the jury.
14 A. These are notes and -
15 Q. I just need you to read the document.
16 THE COURT: Counsel, let's do this. You've obviously
17 got a point in mind. Ask her directly what you want her to
18 either say something to, speak to or whatever. Just point it
19 out.
20 Can you put your finger on it right there on your machine.
21 As to the Exhibit, what do you want her to look at?
22 MS. DUFFY: I want her to look at the words "we
23 believe" and "we feel".
24 THE COURT: All right.
25 BY MS. DUFFY:
569
1 Q. In fact, you discussed using those terms, "we believe" and
2 "we feel" with Joe and Irene Williams in relation to the letter
3 that they put together on June 30; is that right?
4 A. I have told you in my testimony I didn't remember.
5 Q. Okay.
6 A. I really don't.
7 Q. But that's in your notes; is that right?
8 A. Those words are in my notes.
9 Q. And at some point when you were discussing this letter of
10 June 30 with Joe and Irene Williams, you and the Williamses had
11 actually talked to Michael Farris about this letter; correct?
12 MR. LACHENMEIER: Which letter?
13 BY MS. DUFFY:
14 Q. The letter of June 30, 1994; is that right?
15 A. I talked to Michael Farris about their letter of discipline?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. I don't believe so.
18 Q. Okay. Take a look at your deposition in front of you at
19 page 226.
20 Again, you were sworn under oath when you gave that
21 deposition.
22 Line 1 is what I want you to focus your attention to.
23 A. "Did Michael Farris"
24 Q. I am sorry, I need to ask you a question.
25 I asked you: "Okay. Did Michael Farris offer any
570
1 suggestions about a letter?"
2 A. Are we talking about the pastor's letter or the cover
3 letter?
4 THE COURT: Ms. Welch -
5 THE WITNESS: It's very different letters.
6 THE COURT: Ms. Welch, when we do the deposition, in
7 terms of what is happening here, she's going to read the
8 question, you are going to read the answer.
9 If there's anything that needs to be explained beyond that,
10 it will be done in a different fashion. This is not the time to
11 ask questions, okay?
12 THE WITNESS: Okay.
13 THE COURT: Read the question.
14 BY MS. DUFFY:
15 Q. Mrs. Welch, I asked you, "Did Michael Farris offer any
16 suggestions about this letter?"
17 A. My answer is -
18 MR. LACHENMEIER: Objection, that's not the question,
19 it's "about a letter."
20 BY MS. DUFFY:
21 Q. "About a letter?"
22 A. The answer was, "I -- I don't know. We talked to him about
23 the letter."
24 Q. And Michael Farris suggested that you should notify people
25 in a letter that came from Cheryl's pastor; isn't that right?
571
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. With respect to the cover letter of Exhibit 26, that was a
3 letter that you had requested from the Williamses; right?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. You were prepared to send Joe and Irene some mailing labels
6 that you would send to them so that they could directly send
7 this letter to home schooling organizations and they would
8 directly mail off the letter; correct?
9 A. That was one possibility.
10 Q. Okay. But instead you actually mailed the letter out
11 yourself; correct?
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. When you sent Exhibit 26, this packet of information out,
14 you expected the home schooling organizations that you directed
15 this letter to, to actually cancel any speaking engagements they
16 had with Cheryl Lindsey; correct?
17 A. I would have expected that to be the normal reaction.
18 Q. And you also would have expected that the leaders of these
19 organizations would not invite Cheryl Lindsey to speak at those
20 organizations; correct?
21 A. At least for some time.
22 Q. Now, when this matter first came up, you also had a number
23 of conversations with Joe and Irene Williams; correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 THE COURT: Let's do this. Let's take the noon recess