UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON AT TACOMA

CHERYL LINDSEY SEELHOFF, a married woman, Plaintiff, Tacoma, Washington vs. PAT and SUE WELCH, husband and wife, Defendants.

Docket No. C97-5383FDB Tacoma, Washington September 1, 1998 Trial Volume 2

TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE HONORABLE FRANKLIN D. BURGESS UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a Jury.

APPEARANCES: For the Plaintiff:	BARBARA J. DUFFY GWENDOLYN PAYTON KLEIN Lane Powell Spears Lubersky 1420 Fifth Avenue, Suite 4100 Seattle, Washington 98101-2338
For the Defendants:	RUDY R. LACHENMEIER LORI DeDOBBELAERE Lachenmeier, Enloe & Rall 9600 S.W. Capitol Highway Portland, Oregon 97219
Court Reporter:	Teri Hendrix Union Station Courthouse, Room 3100 1717 Pacific Avenue Tacoma, Washington 98402 (253) 593-6545

Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript produced by Reporter on computer.

Excerpt from transcripts Volume 2 September 1, 1998 Pages 210-445


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Tacoma, Washington 98401

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1  A.  That's correct.
2  Q.  'Now, tell me about that speech, what was the topic of your
3  keynote speech?
4  A. The topic of that speech -- which I had submitted months
5  prior a list of my workshops. They could choose from which ones
6  they wanted me to do, they had chosen that one and six other
7  ones, as I recall, or else I discussed what I could do, and I
8  had come to some understanding with Michael Boutot of CHEO. The
9  keynote address they wanted me to give as the keynote was Titus
10  2, Living in a Feminist Age, that was the name of the address.
11   Q.  Prior to your speech, your presentation at the CHEO
12  convention, how many workshops had you given?
13  A.  From like between 1989 to 1994?
14  Q.  Correct.
15  A.  I had probably given between 50 and 100 workshops at various
16  times, various places.
17  Q.  Do you recall how many of those workshops involved Titus 2,
18  Living in the Feminist Age?
19  A.  I have counted them and it was six times.
20  Q.  Your presentation at CHEO, your keynote presentation, was
21  there anything unusual about that presentation?
22  A.  Yes.
23  Q.  What was that?
24  A.  I read most of that presentation from books that I did not
25   write.

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1  Q.  Why is that?
2  A.  'Because I felt concerned about the content of that workshop,
3  given the circumstances in my life.
4  I honestly didn't know whether in a perfect world I should
5  go and give that particular workshop, but I had made that
6  promise the year prior, I had subscribers and all kinds of
7  people coming to hear me speak. I promised to deliver a
8  product. I felt I should give it my best shot. And I used
9  books that I believed would give to those who came to hear me,
10  what they came to hear.
11  Q.  Mrs. Seelhoff, when did this buzz about your relationship
12  with Rick Seelhoff stop, in your mind?
13  A.  When I filed this lawsuit.
14  Q.  After you published the February 1995 Gentle Spirit did it
15  die down?
16  A.  No, it increased.
17  Q.  Did you receive any support at all after you published the
18  1995 issue?
19  A.  Yes, my subscribers were supportive. The majority of my
20  subscribers, once they heard the story from my own voice with my
21  own words and own piece of paper, were by and large supportive
22  and emotionally encouraging.
23  But by that time they did not know what the future of the
24  magazine was going to be, based on the fact that I now had
25  opposition from key leaders in the home schooling market, key

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1  leaders in the industry. I was one woman. They did not know if
2  1 was going to be able to continue to publish. They wanted me
3  to.
4  But what I'm trying to say, the support I received was
5  emotional but not financial, in particular.
6  Q.  Did you undertake to publish another issue of Gentle Spirit
7  to your subscribers?
8  A.  I have published online.
9  Q.  But other than your online efforts, have you sent out a
10  magazine to subscribers?
11  A.  Back issues only, not new magazines.
12  Q.  What was your purpose in sending out back issues to
13  subscribers?
14  A.  Well, when I sent out the final issue in February, I told my
15  version of the events that happened, told my story to the degree
16  that I felt I had to, I was forced to.
17  And then I knew that I should allow those subscribers to
18  have some choices about their subscriptions, but I also knew
19  that I did not have the funds to refund, if everybody should
20  want a refund.
21  What I did was I offered them the option of fulfilling their
22  subscription with back issues of the magazine.
23  And we maintained a good supply of back issues and they were
24  in high demand.
25  What I did was I said that if they wanted to fulfill their

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1  subscription with back issues, if they would send me a large
2  self-addressed stamped manila envelope, I would send them back
3  issues to satisfy their subscriptions, and three additional or
4  additional back issues to pay for their postage.
5  And what that ended up doing was gave them a good deal and
6  allowed me to fulfill a number of my subscribers, subscriptions
7  with something that they actually wanted.
8  So after the February issue I was sending out tons and tons
9  of back issues, for not only people that wanted to cancel but
10  also for just people who liked that deal.
11  What a lot of people did was they decided they would use up
12  ten of their remaining issues for my good deal, and they wanted
13  to keep one remaining issue open.
14  So, assuming I could continue to publish, then they would
15  renew when they saw my next magazine.
16  It was kind of like -- you have to understand, that these
17  are one-income families by and large. They don't have a lot of
18  large disposable income. And that was the appeal of my
19  magazine, was teaching them to live simply on one income. And
20  they could not afford, it was an investment for them to
21  subscribe to a magazine. So they could not afford to just
22  support a magazine if the continued barrage against it was going
23  to force it out of the marketplace. And that is eventually what
24  happened.
25  Q.  Your efforts to publish online, when did they begin?

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1  A.  When I realized I wasn't going to receive enough financial
2  support or enough money to publish in paper any time soon, I did
3  the next best thing I could do, I tried to publish online. And
4  I announced the publication of GS Online.
5  Q.  Do you derive any revenues from GS Online?
6  A.  No.
7  Q.  Mrs. Seelhoff, we heard testimony yesterday from you about
8  the revenues you were making with Gentle Spirit magazine.
9  In the summer of 1994, where did all the money go?
10  A.  Well, at one point we had -- I think the most money we had
11  available -- actually I shouldn't say that because I haven't
12  even looked at the records -- but we did have money coming in on
13  a regular basis for back issues and for subscriptions.
14  That money dropped off sharply, immediately. And in the
15  intervening time between when the exposures happened -- by the
16  time -- I believe that by December, I think that in December of
17  1995, which was six months after the exposures, there was
18  something like -- there was only between -- only a couple
19  thousand dollars that came in for any purpose.
20  Prior to that time there was a lot of money coming in.
21  In that intervening time I was maintaining my office space.
22  I was paying for a secretary. I was paying for my office help.
23  I wa's sending out back issues. I was supporting my family.
24  This was my livelihood. I had nine children to support, and
25  this had supported my family for five years. Now suddenly I