UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
WESTERN DISTRICT OF WASHINGTON
AT TACOMA
CHERYL LINDSEY SEELHOFF,
a married woman,
Plaintiff, Tacoma, Washington
vs.
PAT and SUE WELCH,
husband and wife,
Defendants.
Docket No. C97-5383FDB
Tacoma, Washington
September 1, 1998
Trial
Volume 2
TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
BEFORE THE HONORABLE FRANKLIN D. BURGESS
UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE, and a Jury.
APPEARANCES:
For the Plaintiff:
BARBARA J. DUFFY
GWENDOLYN PAYTON KLEIN
Lane Powell Spears Lubersky
1420 Fifth Avenue, Suite 4100
Seattle, Washington 98101-2338
For the Defendants:
RUDY R. LACHENMEIER
LORI DeDOBBELAERE
Lachenmeier, Enloe & Rall
9600 S.W. Capitol Highway
Portland, Oregon 97219
Court Reporter: Teri Hendrix
Union Station Courthouse, Room 3100
1717 Pacific Avenue
Tacoma, Washington 98402
(253) 593-6545
Proceedings recorded by mechanical stenography, transcript
produced by Reporter on computer.
Excerpt from transcripts Volume 2 September 1, 1998 Pages 210-445
How to use these documents.
A complete copy of the transcript are availble on an independent web site.
http://members.aol.com/Hsingcase/index.html
(Link provide by permission)
Documents can be ordered by writing to:
US District Court
Western District of Washington
P.O. Box 1935
Tacoma, Washington 98401
386
1 Let me ask you another one to get us back on focus.
2 In one of these conversations with Michael Boutot, you
3 talked with him and you also talked with Sue Welch about
4 demanding proofs of Cheryl's repentance. And the fact that if
5 she wouldn't repent or show that she was repentant, you were
6 going to exercise some sort of discipline; is that right?
7 A. I want to, know if she had stopped seeing the other man.
8 Q. My question though is: You talked to Michael Boutot about
9 the fruits of her repentance; isn't that right?
10 A. I did.
11 Q. And you talked with Sue Welch about the fruits of Cheryl
12 Lindsey's repentance; is that right?
13 A. I don't think I ever mentioned it to Sue Welch.
14 Q. Well, you did talk with Sue Welch's attorney, Michael
15 Farrls, about this issue, didn't you?
16 A. Yes, I did.
17 Q. And that's because Sue Welch referred you to her attorney;
18 is that right?
19 A. That's right.
20 Q. And that's because there were some concerns about the
21 legality of this action; isn't It that right?
22 A. That's right.
23 Q. In particular, there were concerns about the legality of
24 affecting Cheryl's business, Gentle Spirit magazine; isn't that
25 right?
387
1 A. I don't know about that.
2 Q. But you certainly realized that this was something that you
3 needed to talk to an attorney about?
4 A. That's right.
5 Q. Now, Michael Boutot gave you a list of fruits of repentance
6 to demand of Cheryl; isn't that right?
7 A. That's right.
8 Q. And, in fact, this list of fruits of repentance first came
9 from Michael Boutot; is that right?
10 A. I don't know if it all came from Michael Boutot. I can't
11 remember if I added a few things in there, too. But I know
12 Michael Boutot gave me some suggestions, yes.
13 Q. And, in fact, Michael Boutot is the one who first had the
14 idea about having fruits of repentance?
15 A. I think that's right.
16 Q. One of those fruits of repentance was that Cheryl Lindsey
17 needed to stop publishing Gentle Spirit; isn't that right?
18 A. Not to my knowledge.
19 The way I understood it and what I said was that we
20 thought -- I thought Cheryl should step out of ministry for a
21 time. I never said she should stop publishing Gentle Spirit.
22 What I said is that I felt she should step down for a while
23 to win her credibility back with her family.
24 She had lost trust with her two sons. They had quit her
25 magazine. Her trust, her credibility was broken.
388
1 I thought she should step out of the ministry for a time. I
2 didn't say stop completely. I said stop for a time until you
3 can restore your trust to the people.
4 Q. You called that stepping out of the ministry; isn't that
5 right?
6 A. Stepping down for a time.
7 By that you meant stop publishing Gentle Spirit; is that
8 right?
9 A. No.
10 MS. KLEIN: Okay. I am going to move to publish the
11 second volume of the deposition of Joe Williams.
12 I would also like to move to publish Volume 3.
13 BY MS. KLEIN:
14 Q. When you get a hold of Volume 2, Pastor Williams, could you
15 please turn to page 127.
16 THE COURT: I believe Volume 2 starts with page 139.
17 MS. KLEIN: I am looking to page 127.
18 THE COURT: What volume would that be in?
19 MS. KLEIN: I am sorry. That is Volume 1. 1 am sorry
20 about that.
21 THE COURT: Are you referring to a page and line,
22 please?
23 MS. KLEIN: Yes. Please turn to page 127, line 5.
24 BY MS. KLEIN:
25 Q. Do you have that in front of you?
389
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. This is the same thing we went through before. This is a
3 deposition that you gave under oath; isn't that right?
4 A. That's right.
5 Q. The question posed to you was, there at line 5, it starts:
6 "Fair enough."
7 The question is: "Do you recall any other proofs of
8 repentance you asked Cheryl Lindsey to abide by?"
9 Could you read your answer to that question?
10 A. "I think what I said was to be reconciled to her husband,
11 Claude. I think my wife was there at the time, so I'm trying to
12 think what I -- okay. I think we told her she shouldn't write
13 the Gentle Spirit magazine, take a break from ministry. I think
14 I've already shared that."
15 Q. All right. As I read that, it says:
16 "I think we told her she shouldn't write the Gentle Spirit
17 magazine anymore, take a break from the ministry."
18 Did I read that right?
19 THE COURT: What page is this-again, counsel?
20 MS. KLEIN: This is page 127.
21 THE COURT: Of Volume 1. At what line?
22 MS. KLEIN: Lines 5 through 12.
23 BY MS. KLEIN:
24 Q. And Pastor Williams, you read it right, you just left out a
25 word.